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View Full Version : Noobmariner vs. Beginmariner (CN vs. ETA)



jj69
26-03-07, 19:16
I am admittedly a noob to Rollie reps. I've been comparing the subs listed on Andrew's and Josh's sites, and I'm getting a migraine because they all look the same to me. Aside from the movement, are these all the same watch?:

Andrew ROLSUB0007 (CN 21J)
Andrew ROLSUB0001 (ETA 2836)
Josh RLSS10009 (CN 2813)
Josh RLSS10001 (ETA 2836)

Actually, from reading an earlier thread, I've realized that Josh's ETA is a completely different watch. However, what about the other three?

Is there a comparison guide to these noobmariner watches somewhere?

I should probably just stick to IWCs. :)

26-03-07, 21:59
Andrew ROLSUB0007 (CN 21J) = Noobmariner = Andrew ROLSUB0001 = Beginmariner (Josh RLSS10009) , except the movement

Josh RLSS10001 is an entirely different watch with overly conical rehaut, wrong date window that is too far to the right along with its over magnifying cyclop.

I think the noobmariners are a better sub rep. The short rehaut, thick crystal gasket, the short bezel teeth suck though.
For a beginner sub, I'll get the VIPmariner which has a real deep rehaut and crystal gasket like the gen, the bezel teeth are longer. A little sanding of the inside of CGs can make it so far ahead of the cheap crowd only TW Best or MBW can top. Donate and become a VIP and get it for $80 shipped from Tim.

- bm

jdavis
27-03-07, 05:18
I do not think that the CN21j and the CN2813 are the same movement. I have examples of both movements and the Asian 21j is a copy of the Japanese Miyota 21 jewel movement where as the CN 2813 is a copy of the ETA 2824 Swiss movment. It is a 28800 bph movement with 25 jewels and is considered to be a very close clone of the ETA in all respects.

coop
27-03-07, 05:42
Everyone keeps saying that the asian 2813 is an eta rep, its not. It also does not beat 28800. I have a beginmariner with this movement from josh. Its a nice rep, but not 28800.

27-03-07, 08:48
so what is CN 2813 a copy of? can't be 2824. 2824 is a thinner movement. Had they used a 2824 or equivalent, the case wouldn't be able to fit a 2836 or the good old CN 21 J. I doubt they create different cases for different movements 'cause they would have to change the crown tube hole position and most likely the CGs.

-bm

coop
27-03-07, 08:56
I should say that I have been told that its not an eta copy by others. What I can say I is that my sub from josh, although nice, with this movement does not sweep any where near as smooth as my swiss subs. Six ticks pers sec. or 21600 is what mine is doing. Dont get me wrong, It keeps great time, only off about 7-9sec a day, but my etas are MUCH smoother. :)

HiDef
27-03-07, 09:54
The so called ETA copy 2813 of the beginmariner is actually the DG 2813-2 and is suppose to have a beat rate of 28,800. Does anyone really tested what really is the correct beat of the DG 2813-2?? There is also a DG 2813 with 21,000 beat rate. I can't see any difference in beat when I sit it side by side with my 2836 watches.

who2R
27-03-07, 10:59
@bm, I can't figure out what is VIPmariner's real identity? Noobmarine, beginnmariner, Mini-TW best w/ asian movement....or else?


thank you

jj69
27-03-07, 11:04
I should say that I have been told that its not an eta copy by others. What I can say I is that my sub from josh, although nice, with this movement does not sweep any where near as smooth as my swiss subs. Six ticks pers sec. or 21600 is what mine is doing. Dont get me wrong, It keeps great time, only off about 7-9sec a day, but my etas are MUCH smoother. :)

coop,

How long ago did you get your sub from Josh? If you look at his site now, he has a photo of his Beginmariner hooked up to a wischi machine. The machine shows it running at 28,8. Is it possible you have an older version of the Beginmariner?

jdavis
27-03-07, 11:45
Ziggy Zumma recently took an Asian 2813 apart to determine how good it is. According to his report, the movement has very well machined parts that are made of the proper materials. He declared it to be a nearly exact clone of the ETA 2824/2836 series of movements. He went so far as to say that if it had the ETA markings, it would be difficult to distinguish from the genuine ETA.

bklm1234...the ETA2824 and the 2836 are both 11.5L in size. They are identical movements except that the 2836 has a day/day function which accounts for the slight difference in thickness. They are interchangeable in almost any application that doesn't require the day feature such as a Submariner. The location of the winding stem is the same and presents no problems.

27-03-07, 13:06
Ziggy Zumma recently took an Asian 2813 apart to determine how good it is. According to his report, the movement has very well machined parts that are made of the proper materials. He declared it to be a nearly exact clone of the ETA 2824/2836 series of movements. He went so far as to say that if it had the ETA markings, it would be difficult to distinguish from the genuine ETA.

bklm1234...the ETA2824 and the 2836 are both 11.5L in size. They are identical movements except that the 2836 has a day/day function which accounts for the slight difference in thickness. They are interchangeable in almost any application that doesn't require the day feature such as a Submariner. The location of the winding stem is the same and presents no problems.

not what I heard about thickness of 2824 vs 2836. I asked that at RWG before at http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=20268&hl=

The 2824 copy (actually it's a 2836 copy, Ziggy thought or mis-typed it as 2824 1st and later corrected that to 2836 because other members pointed that out) reviewed by Ziggy is not the Asian 2813, http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=21993&hl= Don't get that confused. The movement came from a watch of River's, not Josh's. The Asian 2813, like HiDef says, is the DG 2813. Here's pic. Doesn't look like 2824 at all. The quality of the Asian 2813 is still not quite known:
http://www.ofrei.com/images/dg2813.jpg
2824-2
http://www.chronometrie.com/eta2824/images/eta2824ar.jpg

27-03-07, 13:18
@bm, I can't figure out what is VIPmariner's real identity? Noobmarine, beginnmariner, Mini-TW best w/ asian movement....or else?


thank you

none of the above. It's entirely different. I rank it above the noobmariners(=beginmariners with diff cn mov'ts) and the josh's in terms of the body (i.e. not counting the bracelet). The deep rehaut and thin crystal gasket and the long bezel teeth have the gen look. It's not as good as TW Best and MBW because the crystal is not beveled correctly (neither are the other 2 models) and the bezel isn't thick enough (neither are the other 2 models). The noobmariners have the correct bracelet (hollow mid links) though.

-bm

jj69
27-03-07, 13:28
For a beginner sub, I'll get the VIPmariner which has a real deep rehaut and crystal gasket like the gen, the bezel teeth are longer. A little sanding of the inside of CGs can make it so far ahead of the cheap crowd only TW Best or MBW can top. Donate and become a VIP and get it for $80 shipped from Tim.

- bm

bm: Who is Tim and how do I get this? If I donate, will I see this watch listed somewhere? How much of a donation must I make? TIA

alligoat
27-03-07, 13:30
I agree with bklm on this. The DG2813 is not an ETA copy, it's a Miyota copy. I have no doubt that it started out as a 21600 bph and probably was recently revamped as a 28800 bph. It comes from PTS Resources over in China and it is probably one of the better CN movts. The ETA 2836 copy as we saw in River's sub and a few other reps looks ETA and simply lacks the markings. And as Ziggy says, the fit and finish is comparable to a true ETA. When it comes to the DG 2813, he said he still prefers the Miyota 8215 over the DG2813, and most of the time, the hands will swap out, too.

27-03-07, 18:31
For a beginner sub, I'll get the VIPmariner which has a real deep rehaut and crystal gasket like the gen, the bezel teeth are longer. A little sanding of the inside of CGs can make it so far ahead of the cheap crowd only TW Best or MBW can top. Donate and become a VIP and get it for $80 shipped from Tim.

- bm

bm: Who is Tim and how do I get this? If I donate, will I see this watch listed somewhere? How much of a donation must I make? TIA

Tim is our Drmmaster. After you donate (I assume you PM'd Drmmaster when you did that), he will grant you access to the VIP section. You will find the VIPmariner listed there. Donation amount is up to you.

-bm

jdavis
27-03-07, 20:38
bklm, I recently pulled a 2836 that wasn't running properly from one of my subs and replaced it with a new 2824. It went in without a hitch and the crown and stem are a perfect fit. The link that you posted said that there was about .25mm difference in the thickness which is about as thick as a couple of good size hairs. At any rate, I can say from experience that the difference was not perceptible to me.
The photo of the Asian movement that you show looks exactly like my Asian 21j (Miyota copy). Are you saying that this is the Chinese clone of the ETA 2836? If so, it isn't much of a clone because it has no resemblance to the ETA that Ziggy reviewed and declared it to be an almost exact copy of the ETA. Perhaps the 2813 movement is really the Asian 21j and the clone of the ETA2836 is 2836CN [smilie=icon_scratch.gif]

27-03-07, 21:03
bklm, I recently pulled a 2836 that wasn't running properly from one of my subs and replaced it with a new 2824. It went in without a hitch and the crown and stem are a perfect fit. The link that you posted said that there was about .25mm difference in the thickness which is about as thick as a couple of good size hairs. At any rate, I can say from experience that the difference was not perceptible to me.
The photo of the Asian movement that you show looks exactly like my Asian 21j (Miyota copy). Are you saying that this is the Chinese clone of the ETA 2836? If so, it isn't much of a clone because it has no resemblance to the ETA that Ziggy reviewed and declared it to be an almost exact copy of the ETA. Perhaps the 2813 movement is really the Asian 21j and the clone of the ETA2836 is 2836CN [smilie=icon_scratch.gif]

Well, you've done it before. I believe you. Your stem might be a little bent. I don't know
Read alligoat's comment about the Asian 2813 movement. Ziggy didn't review that particular movement. Not that I know of. If you know he did one, post the link. The link I mentioned is on a 2836 copy. It's definitely not the Asian 2813 movement in the Beginmariner. It's from a River's watch. The watch was sold as if it came with an ETA, unlike the Beginmariner which is clearly sold with an Asian movement.

-bm