SUB 116610 LV - The Hulk

[Bonesey]

It has only just crept onto my radar that there are now some dealers offering the Green Bezel / Green Dial (sunburst) LV Ceramic watches. I detailed a few in another thread which I will copy over here for reference. First of all a pic of the lovely gen watch to drool over All photos in this post will be pulled from TD sites and gen sites on the net. Comparisons and opinions are my own and do not reflect 100% accurate details as I am still new to this. Hopefully we can stimulate some discussion on the best of these LV reps.

YouTube - Rolex Green Submariner 116610LV

YouTube - Rolex Green Submariner 116610LV

These are the first three reps in questions that I will look at.



The Pearl

As we can see the dealers shots are pretty bad and we can clearly see two different versions, possibly three. Lets have a wee look at the distinguishing features. First off is the pearl.



From left to right we have Puretime, Perfect Clones, Timeshops and then Gen. All look slightly different. The first pearl from Puretime looks 'ok' as per the last generation of sub pearls. But it's nicely centered and the pearl triangle looks flat topped as per gen. However the outer rim of the pearl seems very thick and of course it looks matt as opposed to the gen pearl's crystal top. Perhaps a little epoxy layer could bring this out nicely.

The second pearl is from Perfect Clones. His pearl is almost similar to the current Noob Black Ceramic sub and Blue ceramic sub. Images below pulled from Lay's site. I know that the pearl on my BK noob blue sub definately looks quite like this. Although this one seems very very pronounced and bubble like rather than a gentle dome of the Noob ceramics. In relation to the size it's probably about right, it's just overfilled with Lume it seems and sits too high, its also decently centered and the pearl triangle looks reasonably flat topped.



The third pearl from Timeshops looks slightly different again, and possibly the best out of the three. It has a very thin outer ring, although it's slightly off-centre in the triangle. The triangle also looks to have a curve to the top portion. Out of the three it looks to be the best rep compared to the gen although it is a little shallow in depth.

Ceramic bezel

Next up lets have a look at the 'Ceramic' bezels themselves. First up we will look at Puretime. It's the only one that doesn't claim Ceramic bezel and it shows. This is their description "green sandwich bezel (ceramic-like finish)". Both Perfect Clones and Timeshops claim in the advert that this, as per the Black, Blue, TT, GMT etc that they are "Ceramic Sandwich Numeral Bezel". In the Black and Blue versions this is very easy to spot, the hour/minute/pearl diamond and numbers are obviously recessed to the rest of the bezel. The bezel themselves is also extremely shiny and reflective in most lights.



Out of all of them, construction wise, Puretime is the worst. The numbering and markers are too thin, non-recessed as per old non-C subs. It's a good thing they arn't claiming ceramic as they would get called out immediately. It's very likely that this is the same bezel from the 16610 LV, the green bezel black face 50th anniversary edition model.

Second up is Perfect clones. The dealer shots are terrible and the only one that shows any reflective qualities to the bezel are around the pearl triangle. This shows the reflection of the pearl on the surface. This is actually the only indication of its 'ceramic' claim. You can also see that the bezel markers and numbers are recessed, of a good colour and of decent width as per gen.

Timeshops (please ignore the actual colour for the time being) actually shows the best indication that these are Ceramic bezels as per the other current models. Font, depth, colour of markers are all pretty decent. Of course none compare to the gen but out of the 3 the Timeshops and PC versions are better.

I guess we should also discuss the colour of the bezels here since we are looking closely at them. I'm not going to make any absolute judgements here as dealer shots are notorious when it comes to colour balance. We can see a wide variation here in all three models. PT is a nice green, but i've almost ruled it out at this point because it isn't Ceramic. PerfectClones shows good colour, reflectiveness, depth to markings and a reasonable pearl. TS has possibly the worst colour balance on the dealer shots I have ever seen and has made it look like a camouflage military green rather than the beautiful rich emerald green as per gen. On all three counts I would say none are up to scratch, but absolutely none of these shots should be taken as gospel to what the real article actually looks like.

The Dial

Lets take a look at the dials now.



This is the only dial that shows any hint of 'sunburst' although this doesn't mean too much as it is notoriously difficult to capture, especially for our dealers it seems. The 5 minute and 6/9 markers appear of a decent size, this is definately maxi-size style markers. However the metal border on them is awful and very very thick in comparison. On the gen the white gold surrounds of the circular lume dots is very very subtle, slightly more pronounced on the rectangular and triangle markers as per usual of course. The minute markers around the edge of the dial are also incorrect. On the PT you can see the 5 minute markers as a pronounced 'I' and noticably thicker than the others. On the gen none are 'I' shaped but there is a slight difference in thickness on the 5 minute markers. The 'Swiss made' writing at the bottom of the dial is consistent with the gen.



Perfect Clones dial is slightly better. The minute markers around the edge are correct, the dial is again a maxi-markered dial. Some of the surrounds are a bit too pronounced as per the PT dial but overall it's not too bad. No hint of sunburst on the dial face as per usual. I'm not going to go into the nuances of the lettering, spacing, or accuracy of the crowns and fonts as I dont know enough to differenciate. All I can say is that none of the dials show the same bright white and crisp lettering of the gen, but that is no huge surprise when looking so closely at them.



Timeshops dial, terrible colour balance aside is probably the best out of all of them. The maxi markers, whilst the surrounds are a bit more pronounced than gen, are shiny and don't look too bad, the minute markers are crisp and accurate. The triangle and rectangular makers are also very nicely done. Out of all three I think the TS dial wins.

Crownguards and Crown

Crownguards. Forever the bane of the Rolex rep collector.



Full size version of this picture HERE

So first of all I must say that to my newbie eyes all of the crownguards actually look pretty damn decent compared to the gen. The only real difference between them all is that Perfect Clones have a slightly fatter tip to them which might echo the gen slightly better. From the photos I have the only stand out dimension to me is the gap between the Crown and the CG's, all of which look ok, and the height of the CG's compared to the Crowns (all, including gen come about half way up the crenelations on the crown). The Crowns themselves are 'ok'. Puretime's crown crenelations look well defined. The raised crown logo is not perfect however. The area above the 'O' is too fat and the stems leading to the 5 points should taper. The 3 spots indicating a triplock crown are also too far down the crown face, whereas on the gen they are equidistant from the base of the crown logo to the edge of the polished face.

Perfect clones has similar issues. Crenelations don't look very sharp, crown stems don't taper towards the end and the triplock dots are too close to the base of the crown logo. Timeshops Crown looks decent with good sharp crenelations, what looks like similar sized lip prior to the polished surface with the logo. The logo is again slightly incorrect with the triplock dots too close to the base of the crown 'O'. We can see however that the crown stems DO taper towards the top but that the 5 crown tips are far too slight and should be better defined.

There's no clear winner on this one I think. CG's are all of similar quality and dimensions, but all the crowns have issues. From personal preference I would say that the Timeshops crown / CG's looks the best.

The Hands



Another difference I noted between the three versions was the correct/incorrect hands. Only the Timeshops version has the correct larger minute hand / smaller hour hand combination (see below for Gen). Both of the others have the maxi hour and minute hands which is incorrect for this version.



The Bracelet

All three of these watches have the new Rolesor Clasp Osyter / Diver extension on the bracelet. Puretime and Perfect clones have the brushed bracelet exactly the same as the Black C sub (116610 LN) which is correct for the model. The Timeshops version however is using the Blue ceramic sub bracelet with the polished midlinks.

So, conclusions?

- Puretime $258 Swiss ETA

http://www.puretimewatch.com/product/submariner-116610-lv-green-eta2836/

* Has correct sunburst dial
* Terrible lumed markers and minute markers
* Non-ceramic bezel
* Incorrect hands

- Perfect Clones $198 Asian ETA

http://www.1-pc8838.com/000rlss01011-2010-green-asian-2836-p-9216.html

* No evidence of sunburst dial
* Correct minute markers but poor lumed markers
* Better Crownguards
* Strangely bulbous pearl
* Incorrect hands

- Timeshops $228 Swiss ETA

http://timeshops.net/product.php?id_product=7325

* No evidence of sunburst dial
* Good pearl
* Terrible colour (could be pics only)
* Excellent dial, both minute markers and lumed markers
* Correct hands
* Incorrect polished mid links bracelet
* Good crown

A New Contender

Thanks to another LV thread I came across this watch on a Japanese website. Use Google Chrome browser to automatically translate the page.

EtayaHonpo

This looks to be a fourth version of the Ceramic LV. It also has some very nice qualities to it.

Pros

* Excellent minute markers
* Excellent lumed markers
* Correct Sunburst dial
* Ceramic bezel with good depth to markers and numbering
* Fantastic pearl and triangle marker.
* Crisp clean dial text
* Correct glidelock clasp
* Good crown with well defined logo and triplock dots

Cons

* Incorrect hour hand
* Incorrect 'Swiss Made' spacing
* Horrible green colour of bezel
* Incorrect polished mid link bracelet
* Incorrect lug engraving 16610 T instead of 116610 LV
(T stands for no lug holes on Sub cases)





The Watch Eden Contender

So spending some time browsing Watch Eden I found another possible contender for a decent LV. I hadn't noticed this before and has possibly only just been added to the database. It's obviously one of the newer reps as it comes with the modified 3135 movement. This is a nickel plated asian clone movement working at 28,800 bph as per gen movement. It is a poor attempt to make the movement look closer to gen but anyone who's opened a gen caseback will tell it is fake very quickly.

Watch Eden 116610 LV

Asia ETA 3135 Automatic Movement - $308

So let's take a loot at the pro's and con's to this version.

Pros

* Passable sunburst dial
* Possible Ceramic Bezel
* Passable bezel colouring
* Correct 'Swiss Made'
* Good pearl
* Correct brushed bracelet
* Correct smaller hour hand
* Good length minute hand
* Correct glidelock bracelet
* Correct maxi markers

Cons

* Bezel and dial colour still a little drab in colour rather than bright Emerald as gen
* Bezel numbers and markers too thin and grey in colour
* Lumed marker edges still too thick
* Crown is too small
* Logo on crown poorly defined
* Crownguards too small for maxi case
* Crown on bracelet clasp is poorly defined
* Rolex crown on dial incorrect
* Very slightly 'wokky' rehaut
* Rehaut engraving looks roughly done and not aligned
* Incorrect 'I' at 5 minute markers on outer dial

In conclusion this is one of the better ones. Pearl is nice, bezel colour is getting better and it also has the sunburst dial. It's an expensive version using the 3135 movement so might not be to all tastes.





Have we found it?

So here we have possibly the one we have been looking for. The so called 'Youtube seller' that has cropped up before. Several of our members have purchased watches from him without issue and whilst he is not a Trusted Dealer on the forum he has been known to deliver what he claims. Here is the Youtube video that shows what looks like a good version of the Hulk.

He's also a member of these forums under the name 'watchcollectorhk' I believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watchcollecterhk#p/u/0/_aTQc50bw9M





Dealers claims:

* $340 for genuine Swiss ETA
* Claimed Ceramic sandwich Bezel

From what I can see it has a lot of things going for it

Pros

* Sunburst dial
* Good bezel colour
* Excellent bezel markings
* Nicely centred and crafted pearl
* Correct maxi-markers
* Almost perfectly aligned rehaut engraving
* Correct brushed bracelet
* Correct smaller hour hand
* Correct 'Swiss Made'

Cons

* Is the bezel really ceramic??
* Incorrect 'I' markings at 5 mins

For all intents and purposes this is the best LV rep I have seen so far. All the other offerings have too many flaws to consider them. Mostly this has been down to either the lack of a sunburst dial, or the olive green colour of the bezel. This ebay seller version seems to have closed the gap on the bezel colouring. I'm hesitating in believing that it is definately a ceramic sandwich as the reflections look far too matte in comparison to the black and blue C offerings. But this could be a by-product of the metallic compound that it looks like they have used to colour it. The Gen is a very very nice emerald colour as opposed to a metallic sheen.

Is this the perfect LV rep? It's damn close. Its definately the most perfect one that I've found so far.

Timeshops Revisited

So we all know that dealer photos never tell the full story. Lighting conditions, white balance settings and differing cameras can make all the difference when taking shots of the watches. This was my initial assessment of the Timeshops LV offering

Originally Posted by Bonesey

* No evidence of sunburst dial
* Good pearl
* Terrible colour (could be pics only)
* Excellent dial, both minute markers and lumed markers
* Correct hands
* Incorrect polished mid links bracelet
* Good crown

A very nice member on here has purchased the watch and was nice enough to send me some shots of the watch in question. The biggest issue with the TS version was the lack of a sunburst dial and of course the almost olive green of the bezel and dial which I claimed could be down to photo processing and capture. Was I right? Let's have a look.



So straight off we can see that the colour is a drastic change from the dealers shots. A lovely emerald green that is much closer to the gen than initially indicated. The pearl is slightly off-centre and not the best I've seen on any of the new reps. A pearl mod could make it cosmetically better.

We can also see that the bezel is definitely a ceramic sandwich construction with recessed numbering and markers and seems to be on par with the rest of the current Black and Blue ceramic sub offerings from the dealers.

One major disappointment is the lack of the sunburst dial. This, unfortunately, is a major tell in regards to accuracy and to me one of the main selling points of the gen watch. However the rest of the dial looks very nicely done. Dial markings are crisp and accurate, the lumed markers look well made as well.

The incorrect polished mid links bracelet has been updated to the correct bracelet which is nice to see.



I'll leave you with the rest of the photos given to me and you can make up your own mind. The rest of the construction as far as I can tell is as per a lot of the current C reps and I can't see any major flaws.













Puretime Revisited

Well it looks like a few more of these reps are starting to hit customers watch boxes. I scoped out someone over on RG selling his Puretime version so I have pinched the pics to share here. My initial thoughts on the PT version;

Originally Posted by Bonesey

* Has correct sunburst dial
* Terrible lumed markers and minute markers
* Non-ceramic bezel
* Incorrect hands

So lets have another look at some 'real' photos of the watch.



First off we can see a few key details. The bezel is ceramic, however it has the same metallic compound colouring that we see on Watch Eden's and the Youtube sellers versions. The pearl is nicely centred on this particular watch which is always a bonus even if the pearl itself looks a bit off. The dial itself is nice with the correct sunburst effect very visible here.



The second thing that jumps out at me is the wokky rehaut. It's the worst I've seen on the new ceramic subs from our TD's and to me really detracts from the watch. The rehaut engraving however is pretty well replicated and seems about 95% aligned with just some minor spacing issues.



The version still has the incorrect GMTii C polished mid links bracelet.





Standard 21j movement installed in this version.



30-09-2011 Update - The Search Goes On

Ok chaps, it's time for a serious update as I've been slacking lately. Busy work schedule and building watches has kept me away from getting a bit of serious time to update the thread. We've got a couple of decent enough contenders which we can now take a look at.

First up, and I think the first released is the version from T4D (also known as PrestigeWatchCo over on Repgeek). Now this is one of the first reps of the Hulk that I would call 'decent'. It's also one of the first ones that comes with a special treat. A cyclops with a light AR treatment. This is nowhere close to gen treatment but every little step is a step forward. Lets have a look at it. It's all one picture so I will sum things up at the end.



Positives:

• Excellent sunburst dial
• AR'd Cyclops
• Good lume marker surrounds
• Correct braclet and clasp
• Good, but not perfect rehaut engraving alignment
• Correct blue lume
• 21j movement means it's reasonably cheap
• Ceramic insert

Negatives:

• Incorrect 'fat' hour hand
• Ceramic insert colour looks poor
• Ceramic insert riding high in bezel / crystal height

So, comparing the lists we see that it actually has a lot going for it. Not perfect, but definitely one of the best we've seen so far. The details that stand out for me are the AR'd cyclops (hope we see some more reps with this) and of course the dial and markers which I believe are excellent. For the price it's an amazing deal.

I was going to put up Josh's new offering here but I cannot access his site for some reason at the moment so it will have to wait.

So the final offering is the new version from Angus at Puretime. This one is really exciting as it's one of the new versions offered with a clone of the Rolex 3135 movement. Not just a modded 2836 (although it's not a true 1:1 clone). This accepts gen hands and dials without modification and should drop straight into a case that accepts gen movements. Truly a step forward. Angus also claims that the movement is very very accurate for timing as well.

• Excellent lume marker surrounds
• Correct 'skinny' hour hand
• Good but not perfect rehaut alignment
• Proper Ceramic bezel
• Correct brushed braclet and Glidelock clasp
• Pearl looks good, easily modded close to gen I would say
• Good crystal height
• Good bezel insert height

Negatives:

• No evidence of Sunburst dial that I can see from the shots.
• Ceramic insert colour looks poor
• No indication of lume but should be blue.

So realistically a combination of the T4D dial on the Puretime watch should = the best Hulk we've seen so far. Whether it could be done is a different matter.

Ok, so I finally managed to get onto PC and screen grab some of the images for his latest Hulk.





Positives:

• Good lume marker surrounds
• Possible AR on cyclops (first picture might indicate best)
• Good lume marker surrounds
• Ceramic bezel of reasonable colour
• Correct bracelet and clasp
• Good rehaut alignment
• Correct blue lume
• Good crystal and insert height

Negatives:

• Very wokky rehaut in comparison to PT
• Again, no sunburst dial?
• Incorrect 'Fat' hour hand

As you can see, the biggest issue again is the lack of a sunburst dial and unfortunately the rehaut as well. Everything else looks good and it's such a shame that two issues such as this can really ruin the watch. It looks like a T4D / Puretime combo is still the best of the lot.

Hopefully we will continue to see revisions of this. I can only ask those that have purchased any of the models listed, if we can get real life (ie daylight or varying conditions) for shots of the bezel and dials for colour comparisons.



At the moment to create the perfect Hulk:

• T4D Dial
• Puretime case set
• Send to Darth Alex for pearl mod
• Fine_DD AR'd Cyclops

29-02-2012 Update - Still no perfection

So, I've not updated this thread in quite a while. Quite simply because I've not spotted anything different from the previous offerings from our dealers. However a lovely chap over on RG has actually bought one of the TrustyTime (non-TD) versions and posted some pics. So here they are.

As a note, I think the colour of the bezel looks pretty decent, the dial looks awesome, but the wokky rehaut is a bit of a let down. They really need to get the noob factory to release this on their ceramic sub case set. Would really improve it.

[levelmanroger]

Nice review! Thanks for taking the time.
So... which did you buy?

[rolly_olly]

Excellent post Bonesy!

[Bonesey]

Originally Posted by levelmanroger

Nice review! Thanks for taking the time.
So... which did you buy?

None yet :/

[Bonesey]

Have updated the dial comparison shots to something a bit easier and added a new watch for review.

Same thread on RG won an award I have 21 posts over there and a medal for showcase

[co-axial]

Great read Bonesey. Thank you. rep added mate!

[jeffmtbr]

Great post, thanks for your time and effort!

[Fiddo]

Great write-up!

A reward worthy post!

[maxlawbr]

Thanks a lot bonesy,

Very nice review. All in all which one is the best?

Cheers,

Max

[joegrimm]

the TS model also has incorrect markings on the case back. looks like there left over cases that they used for gold plating case they have the "750" marking.