SUB How to Be Period-Correct with your Sterile TC Sub

Discussion in 'Rolex /Tudor Replicas' started by arcadia, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. arcadia

    arcadia Active Member
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    *Note:

    This was originally posted about 3 years ago as a separate thread. Due to site migration and other developments, it seems hard to find it for reference. I do not know how long I will still have this and other threads I made in my archive. As such, it is ideal and more helpful that I copy paste this here for new members to see and use in the future.
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    16610 Gen & Rep Dial Variations – How to Be Period Correct with your Sub Part II

    This is part II of the previous thread, How to be Period-Correct with your Sterile TC Sub. If you haven’t read that yet, it would be a good idea to start off with that thread first before your proceed with this final dial topic. If you believe you already know all of these, then by no means just skip this thread altogether. However, this covers other rep makers such as BK, TW, Sean, SA3135 and not just TC. This is also necessary to give everyone a fair guide into the interesting hobby of rep modifications based on gen accuracy. With this, one can go wherever direction he so pursues.

    As before, there are basics that one must know as far as gen parts and variations are concerned, written HERE. As for reps, the best ones are based on two characteristics: accuracy and quality. This topic discusses the accuracy compared to gen 16610s, not their quality.

    Rolex released a number of dial variations all throughout the 16610 period from 1988 to 2010. As we focus on their relation to reps, it would be futile for us to thoroughly discuss the earlier variations. Most 16610 reps are based on gen non-lug holes from 2003 onwards. From the Noob version to BK, MBW to WM9, Sean to TC, most if not all of these reps are non lugholes (16610T) out of the box. Unlike the 16610LV versions where the dials were tagged from Mark I to 8 (as discussed HERE), I would not like to follow these route. This isn’t TRF. We already have in here many variations excluding the ones from the earlier “SWISS T<25” gen dials (tritium etc). If one likes to Mark them, he should start from the 1988 dial up to 2010 and focus on the dials alone and not include parts like insert and rehaut. We will only focus on our current rep concerns, which is 2003 onwards.


    Earlier Variations


    But to freshen up a bit on history, here are a few random samples of earlier 16610s with lug holes.

    [​IMG]
    1996 T series

    This 1996 T series dial features the “SWISS-T<25” at 6 o’clock. It also has 3 small or shorter ticks below the “SWISS-T<25” print. Unlike other LV Mark topics with variations on these traits, I would like to use only “3 Ticks” or “5 Ticks” in naming this feature. This is because these are the ones visible as you hold the dial on your hand without a loupe and is not subjective by nature. Either you see 3 or 5 short ticks, as easy and simple as that.

    It also has the pronounced ticks every hour. This trait is often deliberated among our members and by the end of this topic we hope one can finally distinguish which gen dial variation to follow. Lastly, it comes with a rounded “S” on the Submariner print.


    [​IMG]
    1998 U series

    The 1998 U series dial above features the “SWISS” print at 6 o’clock with only 1 small tick below it. Similarly, it has the pronounced hour ticks and rounded “S” on Submariner. This dial continued to the A series of 2000.


    [​IMG]
    2000 A series


    [​IMG]
    2002 Y series with lugholes

    The last of the lug holes, the 2002 Y series above started the “SWISS MADE” print at 6 o’clock. It also has 5 shorter ticks below it and continued the pronounced hour ticks. Unlike the previous dials, this featured a flat “S” on Submariner and the “1” in 1000 ft. is directly above “R” of Superlative.



    16610T Dials

    Now the more interesting part for reppers, the non lug hole dials. Some things discussed in part I will indirectly conflict with this topic and I will explain to you the reasons accordingly.

    Please be reminded that it is not unusual for Rolex to use parts not exclusively for a particular series, as you have read in previous posts. This means an outgoing series may end up using new parts from the succeeding series or vice versa depending on stock availability. As an example, this particular D series has the succeeding Z series dial (details will be discussed below).

    [​IMG]
    2005 D series with Z series dial

    However, per personal gen experience, the interchanging of dial parts normally can go one series down (previous) or one series up (succeeding) only. It does not go beyond that. Also, unless upgraded through service, it does not downgrade parts. It means that a 2008 V series is very unlikely to have a 2004 F series dial even in gen circles. A 2010 random series is unlikely to be originally released on a 2005 D series dial. Of course, all of these are null and void depending on the specific desire of the customer but it is not the norm in gen circles. As rep members, one should be aware of that too.

    With that, find below all the gen dial samples from 2003 to 2010. Let’s start with 2003 Y series to 2005 D series. I have made them as generic looking as possible to be fair on most accounts. Likewise, I will conclude by mapping out the variances on a table to clearly describe the differences in dials. If you have additional variances, you are most welcome to add.


    2003-2005


    [​IMG]
    2003 Y Series without lugholes

    [​IMG]
    2004 F series

    [​IMG]
    2005 D series low serial

    [​IMG]
    2005 D series high serial


    As one can see on the photos, earlier 16610T dials have the “R” in Oyster directly below the right foot of “R” in Rolex. They also have 5 ticks at 6 o’clock and featured pronounced hourly ticks. They also have rounded “S” in Submariner and the “1” in 1000 ft is between the “R” and “E” of Superlative below it. But starting in D series, there are only 3 shorter ticks under “SWISS MADE” and not so pronounced hour ticks. The “1” in 1000 ft is also now directly above the “R” in Superlative. Specifically for D series, flat “S” is featured on Submariner. I will not discuss other features such as Oval ”O” or Rounded “O” in Rolex. Again, I personally find it subjective by nature and not definitive. One person’s oval O is another man’s rounded O. Tick numbers and text positioning are more clear-cut especially for us rep enthusiasts.
     
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  2. arcadia

    arcadia Active Member
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    #62 arcadia, Jan 5, 2017
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  3. arcadia

    arcadia Active Member
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    #64 arcadia, Jan 5, 2017
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  4. arcadia

    arcadia Active Member
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  5. arcadia

    arcadia Active Member
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    With the above, we clearly see that TW, WM9, TC, and TC KH all based their dials from the Z to early Random series dials; while Noob generally based theirs from D series; and Sean from the early 16610T Y to F series. Then again, please be reminded of our first observation regarding the use of pre and post parts per series release. This means that a D series sub could have possibly been released using the previous F dial; the Z series using a D series dial or vice versa and so forth but without skipping.


    Further, I have seen some WM9 dials that did not follow the above table as well as Noob dials that do not fit in any of the above gen dial series. In that regard, please check yours from the above gen dial table. From there you can pursue which series you may want to base your rep 16610 from with the additional help from the previous parts thread on being period correct.


    Various people have different priorities, different tolerances, and different capacity or even willingness to modify. Instead of concluding like what I previously did, it is more ideal for everyone to discuss and choose what is best for you to pursue. I’m just the devil who tempts you, the final choice is always yours. Regardless, just treat this as a hobby and enjoy them as they are, replicas. Hope this helps.
     
  6. ginopino

    ginopino RWI SUPPORTER
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    Great update-thread union, thanks.
    I think for a TC V7X the D series could be correct, but the dial is more near to a Z series but the "=" symbol between ft and 300 is not correct.
    Or am I wrong?
     
  7. Bananaman

    Bananaman New Member
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